The crisis in the church- it’s way more serious than we think : Hell, salvation and intimacy
FIRST- I’m LIVE in the video discussion room right now. Come on over and discuss the following topic with us. The address, as always, is: http://www.praytherevolution.com/live. (7:30pm, Thursday, February 26th)
“Many people will be shocked to find themselves in Hell one day.”
That’s the chilling message that God delivered to me after what I now simply refer to as, “the dream.”
I’m sure some may wonder why I seem to emphasize prayer as our primary, daily activity as believers to such a degree. Once somebody presumed that I was an “Anna” who’ was uniquely called to intercede. I can assure you, I’m not an Anna (who stayed in the Temple continually and interceded until Jesus’ first arrival).
Others may feel it’s because I’m simply wired that way, that prayer is just a good fit for me. Well, it is a good fit for me, but, again, that’s not why I am continually provoked to sound the alarm for prayer.
That prophetic call that resounds deep within is due to a few key issues, issues that must be addressed with great fear and trembling. The urgency must be extreme. These issues are:
- Hell
- Mission
- Normalcy
Hell: Back to my dream, or rather, “the dream.” I won’t go into detail here as I have written extensively about the dream in my book The Terror of Hell, but suffice it to say, I was dragged by my ankles toward hell. The white fear was so extreme that I can’t even think of hell now for more than 5 of 6 seconds without having to shut it down. It’s too terrifying. The main revelation from that dream was that many church going people will be shocked & terrified to find themselves there one day. It’s mind blowing and horrific. What’s even scarier is that so many have found false security in the repeating of the sinner’s prayer or in faithful tithing or church attendance, yet have no intimacy with Jesus. Oh, this is so serious. Prayer is the antidote to Hell. A lifestyle of deep, zealous and continual prayer will cause us to fall deeply in love with Jesus. We won’t ever have to worry about hearing, “Depart from me I never knew you.” Or, it could also be said, “Depart from me I was never intimate with you.” As we pray, continually, and enjoy God, and draw near to him, and experience the Truth of the Word of God, look out. But, if we don’t enjoy God, don’t hear his voice, don’t know him, don’t want to pray, really look out. I say in my book, “The lack of a desire, or at least the desire to desire, to be with God in intimate prayer is a sign of an at risk position in Christ.”
Mission: This is a huge topic. There are many who aren’t deeply involved in a lifestyle of prayer that use the excuse that they don’t have the time to pray due to the need to “get out there” and “do the work.” This is such a dangerous position to take. It teeters on arrogance as it conveys that one can “do the work” of the Kingdom such as evangelism, feeding the hungry, etc. without the power of the King. We simply can’t effectively and efficiently minister without living in the furnace of night and day prayer. It can be said that the mission is prayer. It’s the first commandment. We must continually be in the place of intercession in a prophetic environment so we can both hear God’s instructions and minister back to him. As we spend hours a day in prayer, evangelism and works of mercy will burn through us. Additionally, our prayer will do more than anything in the natural ever could. Prayer is the mission as prayer, especially unified prayer, changes kings and kingdoms more than any other activity. Is prayer everything? Well, in a way yes. Prayer is continual communication and encounter with God. But, of course, many other activities are important. Radically so. But, prayer must not ever be forsaken for the sake of these other activities. It’s not either/or, but rather, it’s both/and.
Normalcy: To live a lifestyle of continual, deep prayer is to live a normal lifestyle. This is one reason I take issue with the seeker sensitive movement, for example. I hold to a firm belief that we must introduce people into the furnace of God’s presence. This kind of life is the norm for believers. I made a promise to the folks in my church that I would never tone down a dynamic, powerful atmosphere of Holy Spirit activity out of respect of those less hungry. The life of prayer-fueled encounter is the biblically normal life. The fire should never go out. If we remove prayer from the equation, we have departed severely from biblical life. This is why I feel a reformation must come. Churches must return to their destiny as a house of prayer. It should be normal to walk into a church service and fall on our face for a few hours in wild intercession for the nations. People wonder why the prayer rooms are empty. I’ll tell you why- they are empty because prayer has been relegated to an extra-curricular activity. All the energy is spent in small groups, teaching services, etc., which, by the way, are good and important, but, I believe they are out of order. If our Sundays were nothing but prayer, prophecy and reading some scripture as people were on their face in intercession, imagine what the mid-week teaching service and the home groups would be then! What if every church in a city stopped every program, every childrens ministry, every small group, every teaching service, and called the people together to pray and read scripture in their place- for six months- we would not have to prove the existence of God to the lost. The Proof would explode in power before their very eyes.
So, this is the burn in my heart. We must have reformation in the church and we must return to the primary purpose of every believer- to encounter God night and day and invite others to burn with us.
I love how someone once said, “The church isn’t to be a house of teaching, a house of evangelism, a house of small groups or a house of study. It’s a house of prayer for all nations.” Job one is prayer. The most time consuming activity every day for every believer is prayer.
I trust you can see from this post that the crisis of prayerlessness in the church is more severe than we can imagine. Missions are powerless, a normal biblical life is evading us in many ways and people every day are suddenly finding themselves in hell after a long, churched life.
My God, send an awakening to every one of us… including this weak, broken man on fire.
(you can order The Terror of Hell at www.praytherevolution.com/resources)
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24 Responses to “The crisis in the church- it’s way more serious than we think : Hell, salvation and intimacy”
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Love this post!!!
Love this post!!!
While I am not in dispute of our need for continual unceasing Prayer, as I probably pray more often in greater depth of His Spirit than you; however, I have to say, this message is borderline if not over the line “legalism”.
Quoting from a highly recommendable book by Robert Farrar Capon: “Kingdom, Grace, Judgment, I will put a different edge out here for your reader to “judge”:
Pgs. 199-200 “….In heaven, there are only forgiven sinners. There are no good guys, no upright, successful types who, by dint of their own integrity, have been accepted into the great country club in the sky. There are only failures, only those who have accepted their deaths in their sins and who have been raised up by the King who Himself died that they might live.
But in hell, too, there are only forgiven sinners. Jesus on the cross does not sort out certain exceptionally recalcitrant parties and cut them off from the pardon of His death. He forgives the badness of even the worst of us, willy-nilly; and He never takes back that forgiveness, not even at the bottom of the bottomless pit.
The sole difference, therefore, between hell and heaven is that in heaven the forgiveness is accepted and passed along, while in hell it is rejected and blocked. In heaven, the death of the King is welcomed and becomes the doorway to new life in the resurrection. In hell, the old life of the bookeeping world is insisted on and becomes, forever, the pointless torture it always was.
There is only one unpardonable sin, and that is to withhold pardon from others. The only thing that can keep us out of the joy of the resurrection is to join the unforgiving servant in his refusal to die.”
Prayer, by no means is a legal constraint by which I have Life in Jesus Christ's power of the Resurrection. NO, prayer is one of those “kingdom treasures”, that once discovered, the discoverer will sell all that is theirs and go buy the field from that sale the kingdom treasure is found in!
He chose us, we did not choose Him. He first loved us with His steadfast love and mercy, we did not seek it or even know of it. He “crowns” us, we nothing for it except accept it with a joyful heart!
Psa 103:1 Of David. Bless the LORD, O my soul, and all that is within me, bless his holy name!
Psa 103:2 Bless the LORD, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits,
Psa 103:3 who forgives all your iniquity, who heals all your diseases,
Psa 103:4 who redeems your life from the pit, who crowns you with steadfast love and mercy,
Psa 103:5 who satisfies you with good so that your youth is renewed like the eagle's.
Psa 103:6 The LORD works righteousness and justice for all who are oppressed.
Psa 103:7 He made known his ways to Moses, his acts to the people of Israel.
Psa 103:8 The LORD is merciful and gracious, slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love.
Psa 103:9 He will not always chide, nor will he keep his anger forever.
Psa 103:10 He does not deal with us according to our sins, nor repay us according to our iniquities.
Psa 103:11 For as high as the heavens are above the earth, so great is his steadfast love toward those who fear him;
Psa 103:12 as far as the east is from the west, so far does he remove our transgressions from us.
Psa 103:13 As a father shows compassion to his children, so the LORD shows compassion to those who fear him.
Psa 103:14 For he knows our frame; he remembers that we are dust.
Psa 103:15 As for man, his days are like grass; he flourishes like a flower of the field;
Psa 103:16 for the wind passes over it, and it is gone, and its place knows it no more.
Psa 103:17 But the steadfast love of the LORD is from everlasting to everlasting on those who fear him, and his righteousness to children's children,
Psa 103:18 to those who keep his covenant and remember to do his commandments.
Psa 103:19 The LORD has established his throne in the heavens, and his kingdom rules over all.
Psa 103:20 Bless the LORD, O you his angels, you mighty ones who do his word, obeying the voice of his word!
Psa 103:21 Bless the LORD, all his hosts, his ministers, who do his will!
Psa 103:22 Bless the LORD, all his works, in all places of his dominion. Bless the LORD, O my soul!
I'd actually argue it's the polar opposite of legalism. The desire for God, to be with him, to receive him, etc. is to pray. I'm not talking shooting up requests, or 'saying our prayers'. I'm talking a back and forth, vital, active, powerful, consuming encounter with God.
The simple way to say it is: The issue of prayer is a barometer. To lack desire to have relationship with God is an indicator of an at risk position in Christ.
As we are zealously in love with God and receive him, his forgiveness, his life… then all is very well. However, if we don't receive God's forgiveness and his love, then all is most certainly not ok at all.
We are to love him with every part of us… Can you imagine anybody loving someone and not spending a lot of time with them? It makes no sense. That's really the point. If we receive God's tangible love, we will desire to spend time with him.
That doesn't mean it's always 'a high'… it's not always easy… but our love continually provokes us to seek his face.
While I am not in dispute of our need for continual unceasing Prayer, as I probably pray more often in greater depth of His Spirit than you; however, I have to say, this message is borderline if not over the line “legalism”.
Quoting from a highly recommendable book by Robert Farrar Capon: “Kingdom, Grace, Judgment, I will put a different edge out here for your reader to “judge”:
Pgs. 199-200 “….In heaven, there are only forgiven sinners. There are no good guys, no upright, successful types who, by dint of their own integrity, have been accepted into the great country club in the sky. There are only failures, only those who have accepted their deaths in their sins and who have been raised up by the King who Himself died that they might live.
But in hell, too, there are only forgiven sinners. Jesus on the cross does not sort out certain exceptionally recalcitrant parties and cut them off from the pardon of His death. He forgives the badness of even the worst of us, willy-nilly; and He never takes back that forgiveness, not even at the bottom of the bottomless pit.
The sole difference, therefore, between hell and heaven is that in heaven the forgiveness is accepted and passed along, while in hell it is rejected and blocked. In heaven, the death of the King is welcomed and becomes the doorway to new life in the resurrection. In hell, the old life of the bookeeping world is insisted on and becomes, forever, the pointless torture it always was.
There is only one unpardonable sin, and that is to withhold pardon from others. The only thing that can keep us out of the joy of the resurrection is to join the unforgiving servant in his refusal to die.”
Prayer, by no means is a legal constraint by which I have Life in Jesus Christ's power of the Resurrection. NO, prayer is one of those “kingdom treasures”, that once discovered, the discoverer will sell all that is theirs and go buy the field from that sale the kingdom treasure is found in!
He chose us, we did not choose Him. He first loved us with His steadfast love and mercy, we did not seek it or even know of it. He “crowns” us, we nothing for it except accept it with a joyful heart!
Psa 103:1 Of David. Bless the LORD, O my soul, and all that is within me, bless his holy name!
Psa 103:2 Bless the LORD, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits,
Psa 103:3 who forgives all your iniquity, who heals all your diseases,
Psa 103:4 who redeems your life from the pit, who crowns you with steadfast love and mercy,
Psa 103:5 who satisfies you with good so that your youth is renewed like the eagle's.
Psa 103:6 The LORD works righteousness and justice for all who are oppressed.
Psa 103:7 He made known his ways to Moses, his acts to the people of Israel.
Psa 103:8 The LORD is merciful and gracious, slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love.
Psa 103:9 He will not always chide, nor will he keep his anger forever.
Psa 103:10 He does not deal with us according to our sins, nor repay us according to our iniquities.
Psa 103:11 For as high as the heavens are above the earth, so great is his steadfast love toward those who fear him;
Psa 103:12 as far as the east is from the west, so far does he remove our transgressions from us.
Psa 103:13 As a father shows compassion to his children, so the LORD shows compassion to those who fear him.
Psa 103:14 For he knows our frame; he remembers that we are dust.
Psa 103:15 As for man, his days are like grass; he flourishes like a flower of the field;
Psa 103:16 for the wind passes over it, and it is gone, and its place knows it no more.
Psa 103:17 But the steadfast love of the LORD is from everlasting to everlasting on those who fear him, and his righteousness to children's children,
Psa 103:18 to those who keep his covenant and remember to do his commandments.
Psa 103:19 The LORD has established his throne in the heavens, and his kingdom rules over all.
Psa 103:20 Bless the LORD, O you his angels, you mighty ones who do his word, obeying the voice of his word!
Psa 103:21 Bless the LORD, all his hosts, his ministers, who do his will!
Psa 103:22 Bless the LORD, all his works, in all places of his dominion. Bless the LORD, O my soul!
I'd actually argue it's the polar opposite of legalism. The desire for God, to be with him, to receive him, etc. is to pray. I'm not talking shooting up requests, or 'saying our prayers'. I'm talking a back and forth, vital, active, powerful, consuming encounter with God.
The simple way to say it is: The issue of prayer is a barometer. To lack desire to have relationship with God is an indicator of an at risk position in Christ.
As we are zealously in love with God and receive him, his forgiveness, his life… then all is very well. However, if we don't receive God's forgiveness and his love, then all is most certainly not ok at all.
We are to love him with every part of us… Can you imagine anybody loving someone and not spending a lot of time with them? It makes no sense. That's really the point. If we receive God's tangible love, we will desire to spend time with him.
That doesn't mean it's always 'a high'… it's not always easy… but our love continually provokes us to seek his face.
John,
it is pointless and not wise to belabor a point, however gently, though, I want to respond to these, your words, commenting on my own:
“….The simple way to say it is: The issue of prayer is a barometer. To lack desire to have relationship with God is an indicator of an at risk position in Christ….”
That, precisely, is my point and I thank you for making my point so clear, however, not very favorable for you, as I reject out of hand the point you are making, especially when you use the phrase “the issue of prayer is a barometer”. No, prayer is not a barometer. It is the indication of the Creator's Sovereign involvement, by His choosing, with His creature. I am glad for you that you have active prayer, deep and spiritual and that they guide you along. Keep it to yourself. Keep it in your closet.
If anyone is praying, it simply points to God's active involvement in your life, not your active involvement in His. Now I know that is distasteful to you. You want others to believe about you that you do not need any of God's good grace to actively work His Work in you now, that you, by His favor alone, has ignited you and you now go about actively engaging God on His business of guiding and building and correcting the Church!
To elucidate my point even further, indulge me to quote some more Capon on this matter of prayer. If it doesn't “stop” you in your tracks and cause you to retract, I then happily am then going to keep praying then actively for God's Might and Power to show up in your prayer life to kill it and show you the error of your ways. Also, I know how difficult it is going to be to admit you taught others wrong, but so be it. We all have to grow up into His Grace sometime!
Capon:
pg 221 “….In any case, the Lord's Prayer, which is clearly a preface to the parable of the Friend at Midnight, is exceedingly odd in its content, in its proportions, and in its adequacy as a response to a request for a religious formula. It begins, “Father” — an opening that to me speaks not of someone with whom we will have a relationship after certain pious or ethical exercises but of the One to whom we are already related to by sonship. More than that, it suggests that for both the disciples and us, the sonship we have is precisely Jesus' own — that we stand before the Father in him, “in the beloved”, Eph. 1:6, to use the Pauline phraseology. We pray, in other words, not out of our own dubious supplicative competencies but in the power of His death and resurrection. Or to put it most correctly, He and the Spirit as well, pray in us. Prayer is not really our work at all….”
Of the Lord's prayer, there is “one” thing we do, everything else God does for us, through us and in spite of us! We forgive and God forgives. If we do not. He does not. Everything else is God's business and we should stay out of His business. We should rest from our works, however noble they might seem to us and others, they are all, still, afterall, counted as filthy rags before Him. Now and forever it is this way. If it was going to be another way, God would have certainly taught us the other way.
Michael………..What does I never knew you mean ? In the greek ???? I believe you are missing what this call to the church is about ! It was a wonderful comment though !
Michael………..What does I never knew you mean ? In the greek ???? I believe you are missing what this call to the church is about ! It was a wonderful comment though !
Harry,
ask John why he did not let by arbitrary means or by accident allow my second comment go through?
If we can get past that, we can get to the error I detect in your question. It is, in fact, similar to John's.
I know that those are provocative words. The Gospel's address of our doom is equally provocative and this article is a bookeeper's approach to nothingness and puts a burden on the hearer that simply is not in the Gospel. That's a fact.
You need to change your approach if you want to be heard. It's ok to hold to an opinion, but to presume to have the right to make the final call on what is and is not error is inappropriate.
Surely you agree that Christians hold to different view, do you not?
The reason I deleted your comment is because of this issue. I'm fine with differing views, and I'm even fine with being zealous and passionate about our views… but, it's not ok to accuse or presume you have the right to be the final authority for somebody else on scriptural issues, specifically on the non-absolutes.
To a novice that sounded good John, but, seriously, you just established “your” absolute and judged the merits of the argument.
I wish you well.
I will be happy to continue, but with absolutes on your part, make the debate difficult.
I will be happy to respond to Harry's error too?
The point is this- respect.
It's one thing to say, “I humbly feel you might be in error.”
But it's inappropriate to say, “You are in error… because I say so.”
The exception would be the absolutes of scripture. We must be firm regarding the absolutes. The absolutes are the core Christian tenants. Jesus died on the cross, rose from the dead, etc.
However, you are addressing non-absolutes that people simply have differing views on.
John,
come on! Respect? Hmmmmmm, ok, so it's ok for Our Meek and Mild, Gentle Jesus to call the woman a dog, but to call your bluff is not ok?
And making a greater, more powerful Prophet judgment to delete my words and not let two or three judge them is respectful of the Prophetic or Apostolic?
Ok, now what?
I will not shrink back from standing in absolutes. As you are quite aware, it was for that very reason Jesus was killed and I dare say, some more blood will be shed before the day is done:::>
(Rev 18:20) Rejoice over her, O heaven, and you saints and apostles and prophets, for God has given judgment for you against her!”
Do you agree that you might be wrong? Is it possible that others might be right?
I just had to ban my first commenter… ever! I thought I'd let you know why, so we can be sure to understand the (very liberal) guidelines on this blog.
From time to time I'll run across someone who over values his or her own opinion so much that he or she devalues other people's opinions- and as a result, devalues other people (Christian people!). Not only is this an immature and insensitive way to discuss issues, it can be quite arrogant.
It's great to be zealous, firm, bold, passionate and confident as we discuss our insights on biblical topics, but we also have to admit that different streams within the body of Christ interprets certain parts of scripture slightly differently.
We must always be unmovable when it comes to the absolutes of scripture, but the many non-absolutes must be open for discussion.
There's a huge difference between saying, “You are in error.” and, “In my opinion I feel you may be in error.”
See the difference?
Harry,
ask John why he did not let by arbitrary means or by accident allow my second comment go through?
If we can get past that, we can get to the error I detect in your question. It is, in fact, similar to John's.
I know that those are provocative words. The Gospel's address of our doom is equally provocative and this article is a bookeeper's approach to nothingness and puts a burden on the hearer that simply is not in the Gospel. That's a fact.
You need to change your approach if you want to be heard. It's ok to hold to an opinion, but to presume to have the right to make the final call on what is and is not error is inappropriate.
Surely you agree that Christians hold to different view, do you not?
The reason I deleted your comment is because of this issue. I'm fine with differing views, and I'm even fine with being zealous and passionate about our views… but, it's not ok to accuse or presume you have the right to be the final authority for somebody else on scriptural issues, specifically on the non-absolutes.
To a novice that sounded good John, but, seriously, you just established “your” absolute and judged the merits of the argument.
I wish you well.
I will be happy to continue, but with absolutes on your part, make the debate difficult.
I will be happy to respond to Harry's error too?
The point is this- respect.
It's one thing to say, “I humbly feel you might be in error.”
But it's inappropriate to say, “You are in error… because I say so.”
The difference would be the absolutes of scripture. We must be firm regarding the absolutes. The absolutes are the core Christian tenants. Jesus died on the cross, rose from the dead, etc.
John,
come on! Respect? Hmmmmmm, ok, so it's ok for Our Meek and Mild, Gentle Jesus to call the woman a dog, but to call your bluff is not ok?
And making a greater, more powerful Prophet judgment to delete my words and not let two or three judge them is respectful of the Prophetic or Apostolic?
Ok, now what?
I will not shrink back from standing in absolutes. As you are quite aware, it was for that very reason Jesus was killed and I dare say, some more blood will be shed before the day is done:::>
(Rev 18:20) Rejoice over her, O heaven, and you saints and apostles and prophets, for God has given judgment for you against her!”
Do you agree that you might be wrong? Is it possible that others might be right?
Absolutely John, not only am I wrong, I am dead wrong. But I wasn't the one speaking on my behalf as you were on your behalf; I was speaking for the Lord against your article above, which, parenthetically is wrong as you are wrong now.
As I started the one noone will read, if you disgarded it, as I didn't copy it, it really is silly striving with you about it.
So, unless you have not disgarded it and can publish my second response, which is sharp, direct and isn't very compassionate towards your article and you, there probably isn't much more value in this back and forth but a deep swelling of your pride seeing I charged you as being in error before God with this article, absolutely?
I just had to ban my first commenter… ever! I thought I'd let you know why, so we can be sure to understand the (very liberal) guidelines on this blog.
From time to time I'll run across someone who over values his own opinion so much that he or she devalues other people's opinions- and as a result, devalues other people (Christian people!). Not only is this an immature and insensitive way to discuss issues, it can be quite arrogant.
It's great to be zealous, firm, bold, passionate and confident as we discuss our insights on biblical topics, but we also have to admit that different streams within the body of Christ interprets certain parts of scripture slightly differently.
We must always be unmovable when it comes to the absolutes of scripture, but the many non-absolutes must be open for discussion.
There's a huge difference between saying, “You are in error.” and, “In my opinion I feel you may be in error.”
See the difference?